Post by Moss Works Jericho's Schedule on Apr 7, 2014 9:56:11 GMT -5
SUPPOSEDLY, and this is all from a Wrestling Observer article, but way back when Undertaker showed up at that UFC event, his (Taker's) end game was for Brock to be back by Mania that year and beat him. They obviously didn't get Brock to ink a deal at that time, so now we had to do the same story with an older, shitter Undertaker and a damaged Brock. If it was a better match or better build, I think it would have gone over better, but Mark wanted Brock to win.
Okay, overall, this has to be in the top 5 Wrestlemanias ALL TIME. Yes, ALL TIME. One could argue that 17 and 19 are interchangable as the top spot... then probably 3... and that's where I put 30 at. Right after those 3. Talk to me... tell me otherwise.
I think you had a hand spasm, leading to you pushing the "3" key when you meant to push the "x" key while your pinky held down shift.
Also, your 5 dollars to watch + your 3 dollar beer + your 3 dollar cheeseburger is > $9.99
I'm no math whiz, but eleven dollars is not less than ten dollars. Pretty sure about that. Plus, the added bonus of being able to be barefoot at home, not dealing with a bunch of retards at a casino and watch ANY FUCKING PAY-PER-VIEW IN HISTORY THAT I WANT TO, AT ANY TIME, still trumps the absolute shit out of your "nyah nyah, I saved money" boast.
I only watched Trips vs. Bryan, Shield vs. Kane & Outlaws, and the Battle Royale so far. I had to stop being barefoot and go to our friends' house for our group GoT viewing. Therefore I'll withhold my full feedz until I've seen everything. Everything aside from the Divas match, that is. I'll probably skip that, even though I'm glad AJ Lee retained and in the pictures I looked at, she looked adorable as fuck in her Harley Quinn inspired shorts.
Trips is a piece of shit. Yeah, I said it. I have never, ever seen anything from him that seriously impressed me. Ever. He never scoop-slammed Big Show's gargantuan ass right over the top rope and out of a battle royal with otherworldly, baffling ease that made the whole fucking crowd jump up and roar with shock and awe. He never triple double powerbombed anybody (excellent name for that, by the way) or cut a promo which made me feel anything other than indifference and boredom. He is the single most overrated wrestler of all time, trumping even Chris Jericho. I was almost positive that Bryan was going to win, but I still marked out when it happened. Fuck Triple H, he's the king of nothing but over-hyped mediocrity and sucking up to the boss by wooing his daughter.
I wasn't expecting another unbelievable, spot-filled insane six-man war like the couple of matches between the Shield and the Wyatt Family, but holy crap. That match was a waste of time, and it made Kane look like a completely incompetent jackass. I realize that him and the Outlaws are over the hill and can't put their bodies through very much punishment, but he's had a couple of respectable clashes with the Big Show recently (one of them right here in San Diego at the house show that AJ and I went to,) and the Outlaws had some decent matches against the Rhodes Brothers and others not too long ago. I'm saying it didn't have to be a complete squash, and something should have been done to make that match at least somewhat intriguing or interesting. Something! Anything? In my estimation, that actually made the Shield look worse because it made them look like bullies beating up on poor defenseless old farts. The lack of a big crowd reaction when they did their "powers unite" fist thing backs up my statement. The admittedly rushed storyline of having Kane "force" them to do his bidding was still a pretty good build-up, and deserved a better resolution than simply having the Hounds of Justice not even break a sweat. I wonder if something else was going on, like someone was seriously injured already, before the match even happened, and they just wanted to stick to the booking and get it over with. Didn't someone say it looked like Billy was coughing up blood?
The battle royale was decent. The spot with Kofi was pretty fucking spectacular. If they don't have that guy win one of those damn matches at some point, the whole gimmick where he does all these crazy things to avoid elimination becomes something of a self-parody. Once things came down to Cesaro vs. Big Show it became pretty obvious who was going to win. The crowd likes Cesaro. More importantly than that, they WANT to love him. Hell, they might even aspire to adore him. And, why not? The motherfucker is capable of some absolutely freakish displays of strength, as evidenced by the way that he eliminated Big Show. He's completely saddled with two lameoids so hopefully this win springboards him into something better. Also some new ring attire. Yeesh.
Something I thought was odd. The website said something about Cesaro being an unannounced entrant, but I'm almost positive I saw stuff hyping him as being one of the entries. All of those promos and commercials talking about the significance of the match, featuring some of the participants blabbing about it, I really remember him being in one of those. I think it even had him sitting there talking about the match, how he was gonna win it and all of that cliche bullshit.
"A man who is 'sound of mind' is one who keeps the inner madman under lock and key." - Paul Valéry
Post by Lord Hastings on Apr 7, 2014 12:18:06 GMT -5
After the Kofi spot, I really wanted to see him win, and I think I'd actually be annoyed that he didn't had somebody other than Cesaro won. Given that the "prize" was an ultimately meaningless trophy, let poor Kofi actually win a Battle Royal. Let him win a Battle Royal on a Main Event and then job him to Big E if you want, whatever. But let the guy win a Battle Royal.
Fitting way for Cesaro to win though, clearly a reference to Hogan slamming Andre, and Cesaro did a much better job of it. To listen to Hogan tell the story, he had Andre pressed overhead, when he really barely got him above his shoulder. As for Cesaro being promoted in the match, I think he originally was, then when they announced the Tag Title match he was pulled out, then suddenly the day of was back in.
Are you saying WrestleMania X was better than 3? I beg to differ.
You'd have to beg me to get me to watch WrestleMania 3, and then pay me to actually do it. Owen/Bret and Razor/Shawn is far and beyond better than Steamboat/Savage and a bunch of hot shit. Hogan/Andre is an excruciating match to sit through, and Steamboat has gone on the record repeatedly as saying he hates his match with Savage.
and yet you're willing to sit through atrocities such as Bam Bam and Luna Vachon against Doink and Dink... and the legendary matchup of Men on a Mission against The Quebecers. Perhaps it was the Earthquake squash that you were so proud of. Or maybe the timeless classic of Lex Luger in a rest hold match against Yokozuna.
I like 10. I do. It would probably be the next one on my list after 30. Maybe it'd be 14 (HBK vs Austin, Rock vs Shamrock, Taker vs Kane). I don't know, honestly. What I do know is this:
17, 19, 3, 30. Top four for me. 3 for the nostalgia, the "oh my god" moment of Andre/Hogan. I think you're shitting on Steamboat/Savage a bit hard, but then again I might be overhyping it because Ricky Steamboat is my favorite wrestler of all time. So, I can concede at least part of it being my fanboyism for him that hypes 3 a bit more than others might.
On the flipside of the coin... I hate 11, 2000, and the one with Mayweather the most. Honestly, between 20 and 30, they all seem to be exactly the fucking same. Cena vs ________.
Post by T-Robosaurus Rex on Apr 8, 2014 13:44:33 GMT -5
So this is the first WrestleMania I've watched in full, and as a paying customer in many years, and I have to agree with the sentiment it was one of the best ever.
Enjoyed the pre-Show Tag Title match once the two jobber teams got eliminated, but until they were eliminated it was just a mess, and you gotta feel for any professional that not only gets dropped from the main card of WrestleMania but then has to sell a midget in bull suit. After that it picked up but there was never any real tension, it seemed obvious the Uso's would retain and Cesaro and Swagger would finally split, and that's exactly how it played out.
If anyone didn't mark out during the first segment with the three biggest names the company has seen I'm not sure why you spent any time at all watching WrestleMania, it felt like the post-RAW parties that Austin and Rock used to do back during their run, and was a great way to kick the show off.
Pretty hard to follow, but then they had the momentum of Daniel Bryan to keep things going. And it was a great match, which I spent a lot of time marvelling at just how far Stephanie McMahon has come since she rose to prominence on our screens. I remember when the McMahons saturated story lines for so long that you couldn't help be sick of them, and Steph was just annoying. Now she's second only to Heyman as a heel manager who can generate heat, her performance did more for the match than the commentary team, which did NOT live up to the rest of the show. They really need to mix that shit up.
Which brings me to my biggest annoyance of the whole night, Jerry Lawler repeatedly screaming 'This could become YesleMania.''It's YesleMania',
YesleMania?
Really?
I think you meant 'YesMania', Jerry. Unless Yesle is a yiddish word for 'Goat' or something.
It's a long time since the days of Monsoon and Heenan.
But the match was great, I expected more of a Triple H brawl, but we got a technical and engaging match, full of psychology, if a little predictable. The moment this match opened the show it was clear Bryan was going to sustain some 'horrendous' injury to his already injured shoulder and go on to win after an impossible underdog story, not that that's a bad thing, but I was fairly comfortable the WWE weren't going to blow the moment they had in their hands with any other winner than Bryan.
Oh but another Steph point, her gloating over Bryan after HHH's chair attack was another highlight.
And it obviously ran over given The Shield squash, which was what it was, The Shield looked awesome, The NAO's can go quietly now please, they pose no threat after that humiliation.
I wanted Bray/Cena to be something monumental, and I have to agree with a lot of what Steve said, they told a reat story, the match itself wasn't bad, Cena winning also wasn't bad, it was just a flat finish and wasted an opportunity.
It made me dream of a Cena heel turn, him snapping at the end and clutching Wyat in an STF, not letting go ala Hart on Austin, until Hogan comes out, tries to talk him down and Cena side swipes as Hogan pulls him off, then he'd turn look with shock, and then the heel turn begins with Wyatt laughing manically as carried from the ring, still built as a monster, the man who broke Cena.
Had I known what was coming I'd have realised this was even more fanciful.
I've read some saying Wyatt didn't get a WM moment, but for me the moment before it all went 'Superman', when Wyatt was on his knee's and the front rows are swaying and a large amount of the arena were singing 'He's got the whole world' audibly was a great moment. This loss did him no favours, but also does him no harm. And one day I dream of an opponent making an entrance, as they reach the ring, the lights go out, when they go back up the first few rows are all wearing sheep masks. The man's over, wasn't a great match but he's gonna go far.
The Battle Royal, all has been said that can be said, Kofi cool, Cesaro cool, match meh.
Then THE moment, the one that will define this WrestleMania. The end of the streak. And I understand the disappointment, I understand none of us wanted it to be Lesnar. But you know what, THAT was the most genuine emotional moment I've seen in scripted wrestling, possibly, ever. I cannot remember ever being TRULY shocked and surprised in anything that has happened, there are arguments, maybe, for Hogan joining the NWO but that wasn't something I experienced live.
I almost think the match needed to be boring, because that gave us all the biggest shock of our lives. 'Oh, here comes a 3rd F-5, he'll kick out again', EVERYONE was thinking that, because it had become predictable, if Punk, Hunter, Hbk can't end it, obviously Lesnar can't, he's just a part time guy, he's not worthy, he's not the 'right' guy. I was barely paying attention because it was SO obvious how this match was going to go.
And that['s why this was absolutely the right time and the right man to do it. We didn't think he could win, not because it's not believable, it's not like it was Khali or some other guy who's been jobbed for ever, it was because we're all so SMART now, the Taker will put someone over, it'll boost someone's career...Brock doesn't NEED it..so many reasons he wouldn't win, made it the perfect reason to win.
With a Bryan, or a Cena, or even a Ziggler, there'd be a reason it COULD happen, 'the push'. But I can almost guarantee whomever ended that streak would get a LOT of heat for not being worthy, fans would have turned on whoever did it. Who better than Brock Lesnar? It only makes him more hated, the smart marks dislike him because he's a part timer already(And that's no reason for him not to go over Taker...who over the past few years has made Lesnar look like a relative full timer!), but no backlash will diminish what he has already achieved.
And you know what, I actually think this elevates 'The Streak', a legit tough guy ended it, he legitimately won the UFC Championship, whether he was overly impressive or not in his run there, he was a draw, and he was a legit fighting champion at the highest level, alongside being a legit amateur champion. For this man, with legitimate fighting background and a look made for this sport too, to be the man that ended the streak elevates outside of the realm of Sport Entertainment in my eyes.
And I don't think he needs to go on a rampage and be champion immediately and work a huge schedule to make it worth it, he only needs to do one thing.
A legitimate interview at some point in the future, with a legit sport journalist not a wrestling related one, where he puts over ending the streak as one of, if not, THE crowning achievement of his career, that would be enough for the WWE.
The Diva's match was better than I expected, the Bella's have improved immensely, which isn’t that hard, but it has to be noted. I also enjoyed the finish with AJ being sly seemingly missed by most observers. But it was in the end a rest period for a crowd that were in mourning, and it showed.
Then the main event delivered exactly what it needed to, there have been far better WM Main Events, and better 3-ways in general, but it did exactly what was needed of it.
The only bit of memorable commentary in a good way for me all night came from JBL after the Batistabomb/RKO through the table; “That must have been Batista's idea”, which was exactly what I said to my friend, the spot made Orton look like an idiot, which I further enjoyed when he botched down onto the monitor.
The biggest question is how the WWE work with the momentum here, they did a brilliant job building Bryan's rise to the top, it's now all about how they keep him there. Given the wrestling industries past I wouldn't put it past them to try and recapture the magic of the Austin/McMahon years, with HH/Bryan, if they worked it smartly it could work, as lng as they realise that Bryan is a very different 'rebel' to Austin.
All in all a great PPV, and a phenomenal spectacle let down only by a commentary team that needs some serious refreshing.
Hanson: "May Roberts' soul go to a better place, free of chunky Asians, who do flips."
Honestly, I was done after Taker lost. I immediately came here to have the rest of the matches spoiled because fuck it, and that's sad because I really wanted to see Orton and Bryan fight it out.
Oh well. I'll probably wind up cancelling my subscription after this.
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Post by Moss Works Jericho's Schedule on Apr 10, 2014 7:54:24 GMT -5
From all reports, Taker wanted to lose. He was training for the match, realized that he can't go anymore, and said he was probably done. He's from the old school that says you do the job on the way out the door and I don't think anybody would have been able to convince him otherwise. It just happened that he was facing Brock Lesnar, whoever was booked in that match would have gotten that rub.
Post by T-Robosaurus Rex on Apr 10, 2014 8:03:46 GMT -5
And that truth was clear moments into the match (the fact Taker couldn't work) it would have been embarrassing had he won, and he knew that. A Taker win at WM30 would have been more of a black mark on the streak than a loss, in my opinion.
However, B has a passionate hatred for Brock, so nothing will soothe that pain.
I'd probably have felt the same if it had been Bret Hart ending the Streak.
Hanson: "May Roberts' soul go to a better place, free of chunky Asians, who do flips."
Look back on the first 21 matches of 'The Streak' and find me who would have been the better option:
Snuka? No. Taker was a young guy and deserved that one.
Jake? No. Still young up and coming guy (despite his world title win)
Gonzalez? No. Hell no.
Bundy? No.
Diesel? Well, I suppose it could've ended here, but it didn't... and that's fine. Nash was leaving to WCW and a win over Taker would've given him a leg up on him.
Sid? No. Taker deserved that title win.
Kane? Again, I suppose you could end it here... but this is where "The Streak" really starts to take form. Kane's debut at Bad Blood and the story to build to this match was pretty awesome.
Boss Man? No.
HHH? I guess at X-7 you could have HHH win that match. I mean, it's possible... but again, just building the streak is pretty awesome that this is another one he won.
Flair? No.
Big Show & A-Train? As much as I love A-Train... absolutely not. This is probably the least likely to have happened.
Kane again? This was the return of the Deadman... absolutely not.
Orton? This is the strongest argument I'll ever have for the streak being beaten before now. Orton became the face of the company and a top level guy. He was the "Legend Killer" and would've benefited HUGE from it. It wasn't the right time, though. Taker had plenty of years left.
Mark Henry? Hell no. Aside from Big Show and A-Train... this was another "not a chance in hell."
Batista? No. Great match, Taker deserved the title as a "last run" type of thing.
Edge? Again, another that I could've seen ending it, but seeing that Taker lasted longer from this match than Edge did... would've been bad.
HBK? Either time? I loved both these story lines. But ultimately, it was Shawn's swan songs. They were fantastic and they were exactly how HE wanted to go out.
HHH? Either time? The first match sucked balls. Glad H tapped out. The second match was much better with the Cell... but the idea that The Streak couldn't be taken away by telling the "old man to lie down" was awesome.
Punk? Yeah, I could see that too... but Punk then took his ball and went home. Fuck him. If he had beaten the streak last year, is there any possibility he doesn't walk out after the Rumble this year? No, there's no guarantee he doesn't... and then what? The streak is lost to a guy who doesn't even make the following year's Mania.
Post by Red Bull Icon on Apr 10, 2014 9:56:29 GMT -5
I actually like that Lesnar won, and it's because he's a part timer. The streak got to big. Had Orton ended it or Kane the first time then the streak simply wouldn't be 'The Streak', but they didn't and it became this mystical prize. This force of natural or way the world turns. Who ever ended it would have been made for life. Who ever ended it instantly would be the most hated guy in the company. Who ever ended it would have this albatross around their neck and no where left to go but down. I mean how the hell could someone like Reigns live up to being the guy that ended the streak? Or fucking Barrett on like his 3rd gimmick and 5th yoyo push. Or Cena and he gets the surreally silent crowd as the end sinks in.
Brock being a part timer avoids all that because fuck everyone it's Brock Lesnar. He's already established at a huge mythical force of WWE nature. He doesn't have to worry about his spot or staying over because he'll vanish for a few months, come back as the impossible monster he's been built as, and put someone over. Who ever that is now gets to be the guy that owns a huge victory but doesn't have to walk around as the guy that ended the streak for the rest of his life.
And then the timing. Good god the timing. The streak ends and the crowd dies. There's no coming back from that, no sending them home happy, or ending on a high note after that. Unless you happen to bumble your way into putting 90% of your fan base firmly behind Daniel Bryan and having him finally after months come out victorious. And beating evolution to do it. HHH or Cena main evented 8 manias sense XX. No way either of them pull the crowd back in.
That's not to say I think Taker shouldn't have just retired after last year and left the streak intact, but this I think was probably their only option to salvage anything once it was decided Taker would wrestle.