Post by "Burned in Blood" Konrad Raab on Sept 22, 2019 18:21:34 GMT -5
We've not had one of these for a while so I thought to make a discussion about wrestlers countering back with losses trash talk. I like to know if you had a character who loses a lot and is consistently being called a joke, being awful wrestlers and pose no threat whatsoever etc, how would you counter that back? Because that's always the one thing I cannot shake off both heel and face alignments. Not in any way I'm offended as it's all IC, but more want to discuss about why characters who lose consistently always get these insults and cannot find a way to counter back? How would you approach this?
Post by cooltubesource on Sept 22, 2019 21:42:49 GMT -5
This is actually a really good question and I would love to hear the perspective from someone like Angie, who has shown a great ability at playing face. Because playing a heel in this situation is super easy (delusional heel), I think you have the more difficult task of being a face. I have not played many true faces in this game (don't ask about the time I tried to make Bordy's husband a face...just don't), so I don't have the greatest experience, but I think my approach is to be honest in front of the camera about your struggles and how you will use them to make yourself better. Mind you, Konrad HAS done that, and so I think its something to keep working with/developing. Additionally, Kenzi might be an interesting perspective on this, as that particular character lost every single match in her first year, and the writer genuinely enjoys having to roleplay from a losing position.
Post by Roxy Cotton on Sept 22, 2019 23:19:40 GMT -5
As a face, I always translated the feeling in real time. I was frustrated, disappointed, angry, etc. So my character was too. Like Johnny said, it's easy as a heel, you just pretend it didn't even happen or it was a fluke. Faces though, they run on sympathy.
As for trash talk combating - look, anything can be twisted. A face will see insults as showing weakness from the heel. Insecurity manifested in bad words. He'd talk himself up rather than attack his opponent. He'd discuss why he's not going to stoop to that level.
Post by The Circle Television Network on Sept 23, 2019 8:13:23 GMT -5
Hi Fizz,
What they said about Kenzi is 100% true. She lost every match in her first year in the business. Yes, it is also true that it was by design…I RPed for her and even if the other person no-showed, I had her squashed. At the time, she was a face and I used that to slowly turn her into a heel character which culminated in her getting her first ‘win’ at a massive PPV against the woman that first beat her in like 7 seconds or whatever ridiculous time it was. That was all story, but I had to legit sell the losses and I had to endure a LOT of trash talk…even though it was a work on my part.
I wouldn’t want THAT kind of progression from Konrad because his strength is that he doesn’t bend the rules and he doesn’t make excuses for those who do (well, except for Sebastian for some reason LOL). Konrad catches a lot of crap for taking losses and for maybe one of the more infamous episodes, the vomiting scene. That stuff is ALWAYS going to come up because that is the nature of this game. I think you have done a great job of keeping Konrad true to who he is, in spite of the fact that he finds himself in the ring with real killers, week in and week out.
I don’t think you need to change anything, I think you need to double down on Konrad being committed to winning fairly and challenging himself to be the best. I think you need to keep seeking out opportunities to work with other handlers on stories and/or segments that push/sell Konrad as the super face that he is.
Here is one other thing; let that emotion hit the keyboard. What I mean is, use how you feel personally to put more feeling into your rps. If Konrad is angry, let us feel that, but always bring him back to where he needs to be as one of the top (if not THE top) good guys here. Another way to do this is by using a side character to deal with all of that negativity, while Konrad avoids it entirely and is the voice of reason as to why cheating and bad behavior isn’t the way to go.
Lastly, I will say this, try NOT to write yourself into a corner…which I have done in UGWC many times. What I mean is; don’t hinge a storyline on an event where the outcome is uncertain. Just a bit of inside knowledge here, it was my intent to have Kenzi stay a face in UGWC for the entirety of her run while remaining oblivious to the fact that her mother and wife would often cheat for her. What I found was the more I sent her down that road, the more of an idiot she appeared to be for not knowing that she wasn’t really as good as she thought. I didn’t want her to be that stupid, so I had to do a bit of a pivot.
Another time was when I was angling for a match with Alan Wallace after he attacked her. I thought I had a good plan to get to that ‘redemption’ confrontation, but Angie got thrown in and I got bulldozed and pushed out of the picture. That is a huge part in me turning Kenzi heel. I could have stayed the course with her, but I felt that the story was more natural as someone losing their way and falling back into the nasty habits that led to their success from years past. But, I did that primarily because I set myself up for events happening that did not go down, either as I planned, because I was not good enough to win when I needed to or because it would have stepped on the opportunities of others, like Kem Dynamo and Angie Vaughn who had both earned their shots at Wallace ahead of me, even in a non-title match.
I know this is long, but you bring up a good question about RP in general. It is a delicate dance, for sure. In my opinion, I think Konrad staying the course and taking that shit-talk in stride is what sells him. The game is uncertain and sometimes (a lot of times in RPing) the bad guy wins, that is just how it goes. But the game NEEDS good guys and people who rarely bend and never break. Let them talk trash while you stay on the high road and keep picking out why they are terrible for the business. Keep being a role model in spite of the losses. Keep telling the heels that they are bringing down the sport and devaluing the fed and the titles they hold. That is where your strength comes from as a character and that is where you need to make Konrad live.
Post by The Circle Television Network on Sept 23, 2019 8:36:59 GMT -5
One more thing I just thought of...and this is super important! SELL YOUR CHARACTER WHERE YOU HAVE THE CONTROL! What I mean is, do segments that put your character over the way you want theme put over. Do interviews that go on the show and show everyone who and what Konrad is. I wanted Ken put over as a crazy person on a rampage, so I did segments to make that cannon that no one can dispute or deny. You do the same with Konrad...even if it is only a few lines, do that and it will go far.
If you can work with others, so much the better, but you need to put yourself out there the way you want to be portrayed. If you want something in a match to go a certain way to push yourself, send in a strat for the match. Maybe it's simple, like Konrad refuses to use a weapon or is handed one by whomever and he tosses it down and doubles down on being that positive force. Push to the admins that when beat downs happen, Konrad should come out to help and chase off the bad guys...do that enough and they start to remember that he should always be on the side of right and he will at least appear and continue to be that driving force. That is SUPER important! What happens on a show is ALWAYS cannon and you want to control that where you can to get that rub.
Noy in any way I'm offended as it's all IC, but more want to discuss about why characters who lose consistently always get these insults and cannot find a way to counter back? How would you approach this?
Something that I have been meaning to suggest to you is to develop a bad guy side character. By NO means am I saying turn Raab heel, but just because HE is face doesn't mean everyone AROUND him needs to be face. Have someone in your promos who can call Sar a stupid little bitch, so that you the writer can get that out of your head, but then Raab the character can then tell his heelish buddy that that isn't the way to win the day. For instance in my own work, the Bordy voice can't just call you a pathetic loser who *insert some insanely offensive trash talk*, because her language and mannerisms don't lend to that, but she has a person or two in her sphere who CAN say that. Same thing with Sar: She's NOT a good person, but Angie IS, and Angie's perspective can force Sar to ground her own, which is something I have done a couple of times. That make sense?
Post by The Circle Television Network on Sept 23, 2019 11:41:58 GMT -5
LOL You know, until I came here...I thought that. There is some amazing talent in UGWC, so that is no longer the case at all. UGWC forces you to do better if you want to reach the top. I'm not there, and there is a chance that I never get there...but its been a lot more fun here than in other places. The staff reads your RPs and they usually get what you are doing and they will feed you good stuff to use or ignore if you want.
I left LAW because it was endless meaningless match right after the other, after I had worked angles to set up storylines. There was no consideration for what was written, it was just making a card and that was it. Now, hindsight being 20/20, I had a responsibility to let the boss know a bit more directly...but that is on me. Live and learn.
Noy in any way I'm offended as it's all IC, but more want to discuss about why characters who lose consistently always get these insults and cannot find a way to counter back? How would you approach this?
Something that I have been meaning to suggest to you is to develop a bad guy side character. By NO means am I saying turn Raab heel, but just because HE is face doesn't mean everyone AROUND him needs to be face. Have someone in your promos who can call Sar a stupid little bitch, so that you the writer can get that out of your head, but then Raab the character can then tell his heelish buddy that that isn't the way to win the day. For instance in my own work, the Bordy voice can't just call you a pathetic loser who *insert some insanely offensive trash talk*, because her language and mannerisms don't lend to that, but she has a person or two in her sphere who CAN say that. Same thing with Sar: She's NOT a good person, but Angie IS, and Angie's perspective can force Sar to ground her own, which is something I have done a couple of times. That make sense?
I already said this bb...you never read what I write...
Post by "Burned in Blood" Konrad Raab on Sept 23, 2019 12:55:16 GMT -5
I'm glad I've brought this up for a discussion as it was just a general RP question for everyone who could be having the same issues than for myself you know. It's interesting how many really good points are made here. However, doing interviews both in RP's and segments has never been my strong point as I can never think of questions on top of my head and answers not coming out very well, hence why I never do them.
I do need to do segments, the problem is not only I forget doing them, but also have a lack of ideas most of the time as well, but will improve on doing that. I can create a bad guy that was a bully to Konrad from school turning into his friend might be a better solution as he doesn't have any bad guy friends because you're right, I do need to sort the bad guy stuff out as you said, not everyone is going to be a face kind of guy around him.
I will take all of these suggestions on board as so should anyone else in this situation if they are having these sort of problems with their characters. Thank you all for opening my eyes on the whole thing.
Post by DrunkenBuzzsaw on Sept 23, 2019 13:20:32 GMT -5
Im at work so don’t have a lot of time at the moment, but in regards to segments for shows,they can literally be anything at all Fizz. Few years back I just did multiple small segs where I sent the other members of the BG match a gift with a note. It had no bearing on the match at all, just was something I did to help further how much of an arrogant douche Vain was.
2018 Hall of Fame Inductee OWF PDA Champion (1x) OWF Tag Champion (1x - w/Meyhu) 2015 Pool of Blood Co-Winner Chaos Champion (1x) Cooperative Champion (3x - 1 w/Jez; 1 w/Cyp; 1 w/Somers) 2013 "In Your Hands" Battle Royal winner 13 Title Reigns in career
Post by Jet Somers on Sept 23, 2019 15:57:13 GMT -5
I can't express this enough: be real!!
Sometimes taking multiple losses isn't going to result in person saying "dang it, better luck next time." I don't care how face they are. Show some cracks in the veneer. Get mad. Get frustrated. Slip a bit.
You don't have to cheat, but it's ok to get shovey in a match with someone who has been shitting on you for weeks. It would be unrealistic NOT to. Have a fight with Jerry or Fizz just because your nerves are on edge (you can apologize later, or maybe have Fizz be mad at him for a few weeks) I'm not saying I think that's your next best storyline, I'm just saying, have him react realistically to having multiple losses. How would YOU react?
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