Post by Red Bull Icon on Apr 30, 2014 12:31:49 GMT -5
I'm puzzled how sister grape is the unredeemable action of his. Not having bastard kids, plural, with his sister the kings wife. Not attempted child murder so he can keep consensually banging his sister in private. Not killing a family member so he could escape only to get caught again. No. It's more screwing his sister. And shouldn't that make her the sympathetic one?
Post by Jet Somers on Apr 30, 2014 12:47:20 GMT -5
I've looked into some behind the scenes stuff with that grape scene, and apparently the one sidedness was the fault of the direction and not the character. The show producers didn't even realize how bad it looked until the internet outcry over it, and now they regret shooting it that way because they didn't intend for it to make Jamie look all rapey. They were just going for angry, loveless sex with no passion as a turning point to drive a wedge between wicked cersei and hero Jamie (like the sexy sexy scene in 300: rise of an empire). And they failed miserably.
Oh well. A show this good was bound to have some missteps.
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Post by T-Robosaurus Rex on Apr 30, 2014 12:50:06 GMT -5
I'm not saying she should be sympathetic. But it felt to me, the way it was being portrayed was that Jaime's actions were driven a lot by Cerci, she was the one in control and what he did he did out of a twisted love. I'm not saying he was ever going to be redeemable, but they'd started that, or that I liked him, but if they want to continue with a more honorable Jaime, they killed it. I couldn't give a shit if he's trying to save Sansa now due to some sort of honor or code, he's a rapist and that's all on him.
The whole world is full of people with horrible deeds, but it's all different shades of grey, and if anyone is 'innocent' it's generally cause they're too stupid to do anything else.
Raping her cannot be portrayed as 'her' fault, no matter what she has or hasn't done, unless you're a misogynistic cunt. And my real point is, as I've heard, the book made it a more consensual, if tormented, sick and wrong, scene (From what I've heard it was more like the initial Gabby/Ty grapes when she kinda wanted it but didn't). Now whilst I understand showing it as more consensual would open them up to criticism, it fundamentally changes the relationship and the scene.
If it's an important scene in the books, they've fundamentally changed the point. And if isn't an important scene, why the fuck include it at all?
Hanson: "May Roberts' soul go to a better place, free of chunky Asians, who do flips."
I've looked into some behind the scenes stuff with that grape scene, and apparently the one sidedness was the fault of the direction and not the character. The show producers didn't even realize how bad it looked until the internet outcry over it, and now they regret shooting it that way because they didn't intend for it to make Jamie look all rapey. They were just going for angry, loveless sex with no passion as a turning point to drive a wedge between wicked cersei and hero Jamie (like the sexy sexy scene in 300: rise of an empire). And they failed miserably.
Oh well. A show this good was bound to have some missteps.
My only problem is they clearly saw it BEFORE it was aired, how the fuck did they NOT realise that was rapey? It's a misstep that could ruin an entire characters apparent story in the future. it just didn't need to be done.
Hanson: "May Roberts' soul go to a better place, free of chunky Asians, who do flips."
Post by Eden Morgan on Apr 30, 2014 14:59:06 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm gonna catch some heat over this, but I still like Jaime. Sure the scene got all rapey-kinda, and the reason I say "kinda" is because I took it as Cersei wasn't really fighting him. She was even kissing him back at one point, and when she was grabbing at the cloth on Joffrey's slab or whatever the fuck he was on, it didn't seem... frantic? Like she was trying to get away? More like she was bracing? Sure, I'll go there. Was it sick? Yeah, it's incest with the dead piece of shit kid right above them. But we've seen worse on this show. Or maybe I'm just desensitized to it all. I was actually pretty shocked about the outcry, but I guess I shouldn't be. People get offended too easily over things. And what I expected to see/kinda hoped would happen would definitely have been worse. I just knew one of them was gonna yank on that cloth and Joffrey was gonna come tumbling down on top of them. I'd have lmao.
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I've looked into some behind the scenes stuff with that grape scene, and apparently the one sidedness was the fault of the direction and not the character. The show producers didn't even realize how bad it looked until the internet outcry over it, and now they regret shooting it that way because they didn't intend for it to make Jamie look all rapey. They were just going for angry, loveless sex with no passion as a turning point to drive a wedge between wicked cersei and hero Jamie (like the sexy sexy scene in 300: rise of an empire). And they failed miserably.
Oh well. A show this good was bound to have some missteps.
My only problem is they clearly saw it BEFORE it was aired, how the fuck did they NOT realise that was rapey? It's a misstep that could ruin an entire characters apparent story in the future. it just didn't need to be done.
A valid question, one that was posed to the producers. Their response?
"I don't know... we thought the scene was kinda... hot."
Your producers, fans!
Last Edit: Apr 30, 2014 16:08:02 GMT -5 by Jet Somers
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Post by Harley Addams on Jun 16, 2014 11:55:30 GMT -5
The spoilers in the beginning recap is pissing me off. I wanted to be surprised that Stanis was 'coming to the rescue'. Some editor totally blew that secret.
One other thing that Wayne and I call monumental amounts of bullshit on: you really think with EVERYBODY looking for Stark kids and a price on the Hound's head, the guards at the Bloody Gate would let them just walk away? yeah, no. "Why don't you two come inside for a bit while we figure this out. No really, we insist." The Hound wants to get paid and drop her off with relatives. Isn't it possible that there are other relatives nearby?(maybe in-laws or distant relations)LAME.
That's all true, but chances are that would make the Vale want him even more. The Lannisters hate the Hound, the Vale hates the Lannisters....so, why wouldn't they want to keep him, if for no other reason than to deny the Lannisters what they want? He'd be a decent bargaining chip if they ever wanted to forge a truce or get one of their own people back, if nothing else.
Aside from that, there is NO WAY they'd turn away someone claiming to be Arya, even if they didn't believe her. Whoever was in charge at the Bloody Gate would be exiled or worse for letting those two walk away. Probably they'd fly for that blunder.