Post by T-Robosaurus Rex on Jan 16, 2019 6:18:00 GMT -5
So Angie made this comment in relation to Wafe's Holden RP:
One minor gripe I also had, and it's a personal one, was references to Chris Jericho, AEW, ECW, that sort of stuff. In my headcanon these places don't exist as e-fedding exists in a separate reality, so it kinda jerks me out of this fantasy land that I like so much. I know plenty of people who don't care about such references though.That reminded me to post something I have shared with a couple of people in different conversations before.
Then before I did so we got this as part of some incredible thoughtful feedback to Synergy:
A criticism I have here, and I know it is not shared with everyone, is that I don’t like seeing IRL-named moves in my matches. Why did we say Bautista Bomb when we could say sitout powerbomb? Why did we say scorpion deathdrop when we could have said reverse ddt? Bautista and Sting don’t exist. I much rather prefer the technical names, or if you DO want to name them, use the name of someone that IS in our e-fed family. I would absolutely give a nod if you busted out the name of a move used by someone ELSE in the company, if that makes sense. All that being said, hinting or being smart about it is totally acceptable to me. Specifically the line: “...and is obviously followed by everyone “whooooing”, because ‘Space Mountain’ somehow isn’t closed yet.” I liked that because while Flair doesn’t exist in our world, its a being witty and making us pop without being too on the nose.I'm very attached to UGWC and the characters that exist in this universe we have created, but it's also got a lot of batshit crazy stuff happening that is hard to explain in our current world. I have always thought similarly to the quotes above. Always felt a bit like mentioning WWE guys kinda diminished the fantasy we had created, and couldn't quite imagine how we would actually co-exist in the same world as UFC, WWE, NPW etc etc.
Well as most of you know I've been very inactive in UGWC the past couple of years, and in that time I have read quite a lot of books, and I'd say the most prevalent genre in that have been books on alternate, generally 20th century, history. Some really entertaining and thought provoking stories that make educated guesses, based on what we know happened in our real timeline, on how our world would look had one event happened differently.
For instance one series by Harry Turtledove spans from 1862-1945 across 11 books and imagines an America where The South were successful in seceding from the Union.
From wikipedia:
“The point of divergence occurs on September 10, 1862, during the American Civil War. In actual history, a Confederatemessenger lost General Robert E. Lee's Special Order 191, which detailed Lee's plans for the Invasion of the North. The orders were soon found by Union soldiers, and using them, George McClellan was able to fight the Army of Northern Virginia to a draw at the Battle of Antietam, after which it returned to Virginia.
Before the Battle of Antietam, Federal troops accidentally recovered a copy of Special Order 191, which detailed Lee's plan for the invasion of Maryland. Using this intelligence, Federal forces under George B. McClellan moved north and forced the Battle of Antietam, ending the invasion.
In Turtledove's alternate history, Confederate troops recover Lee's orders before the papers fall into Union hands. The resulting Confederate advance catches McClellan and the Union Army by surprise. General Lee forces McClellan into a battle on the banks of the Susquehanna River in Pennsylvania and destroys the Army of the Potomac in the Battle of Camp Hill on October 1, 1862.”
I'd almost call it an Alternate History Game of Thrones. It's very much based on historical facts, but is obviously honed for fiction.
Anyway, that gives you an idea of the sort of things that I have been reading, and that influenced me to do a bit of a thought exercise and work backwards from what I believe UGWC to look like in 2019, and figure out my own point of divergence and explantion for it all. It's a lot less based on fact than it is a fun way to explain it to myself.
I by no means intend this to be anyone else's canon, though your welcome to it, it's just the lense I see our particular world through.
Since we started UGWC I never imagined it being a HUGE international company like WWE, it had weekly shows in one venue and would tour it's 'PPV's' across the US and occasionally abroad. It was also internet based and a streaming only site, which 9 years ago wasn't as prolific an idea as it is now. I've also always maintained that what happens in the ring is real, this is not like WWE, it's something different. I never reference real wrestlers or too much real world pop-culture in my posts (although a fair bit does obviously get in, but pretty much zero modern wrestling references). I have also been adamant we didn't do house shows, and that no-one was really a character, what we see on the boards is them all the time.
So, I hypothesize that the Universe UGWC is based in, is a very close relative to our own, a parallel universe as it were, where our timelines diverged a a distinct moment. That moment was the Death of Owen Hart on May 23rd 1999. At this point the WWE's Attitude Era was really getting off the ground. But at the same time the political climate for Pro-Wrestling and MMA was pretty dicey. They were only a few years removed from the steroid scandal that nearly brought them down, and they and other promotions around the world were providing edgier more adult content. Senator John McCain had been a big critic of UFC labelling it 'Human Cockfighting' and had drawn a lot of political attention which nearly brought it down.
Obviously in our timeline WWE and UFC weathered their storms, but in UGWC's timeline they didn't. For some reason (maybe the Hart family all got on the same page rather than bickering, or some other incident) Owen Hart's tragic death ignited a backlash against both Pro-Wrestling and MMA that by the early 2000's both had pretty much been driven out of business.
Out of those ashes rose a number of hybrid companies. All the glitz, entertainment and big characters and moves of wrestling, but with the shoot aspect of UFC. New fighting styles were developed that made actual wrestling moves become true offensive weapons. Across the world, fuelled by increasing access to the internet, local promotions sprang up, catering to the same markets that had lost an outlet when Pro-Wrestling and UFC died, but doing so out of the glare of the public eye. Small companies around the globe growing loyal local fan bases.
Over the next decade or so to present, many of these fledgling companies have grown but then dissipated and closed, many burning bright but for a very short amount of time, and there has never been one to emerge from the pack like WWE. The new landscape of Pro-Wrestling is similar to the territories, but it is not a geographical split, it is a genre split, with all the promotions being internet based, they are fighting for the same audience, and each different promotion has a slightly different way of displaying their product, precisely because there isn't a standard bearer like the WWE any more, there is no huge company that has managed to set expectations for most fans.
I also envisage that without Vince McMahon and the WWE (or similar monopoly) there is also a wrestlers union, and that more of the proceeds of the events are going into the pockets of the talent, rather than into production etc. They have the best healthcare available and also invested significantly in new treatments for injuries (which is why they can recover from some insane stuff). So this also explains how some people can still have characters that are rich from being successful in the sport while the sport itself seems smaller. They also have more power and protection in making their own career choices, hence why many can be seen in numerous different companies at once.
The biggest a company can grow to is around RoH at its peak size, or maybe a little bigger, nationally based with smaller foreign audiences, but even then it is hard for them to maintain that for long periods, as talent has more freedom to move from company to company, and also the ability to take time and rest up due to the decent healthcare. Which leads to more cross promotional events etc.
So does anyone else have any thoughts on the subject? Don't worry I don't expect everyone else to create their own alternate history (though all are welcome to do so, or even expand on my own), but what are your thoughts on the line between our fictitious world and the real world, where do you draw your boundary?
There are no right or wrong answers here, this is just a way for us all to get a little look inside the workings of our fellow writers minds.
One minor gripe I also had, and it's a personal one, was references to Chris Jericho, AEW, ECW, that sort of stuff. In my headcanon these places don't exist as e-fedding exists in a separate reality, so it kinda jerks me out of this fantasy land that I like so much. I know plenty of people who don't care about such references though.
Then before I did so we got this as part of some incredible thoughtful feedback to Synergy:
Well as most of you know I've been very inactive in UGWC the past couple of years, and in that time I have read quite a lot of books, and I'd say the most prevalent genre in that have been books on alternate, generally 20th century, history. Some really entertaining and thought provoking stories that make educated guesses, based on what we know happened in our real timeline, on how our world would look had one event happened differently.
For instance one series by Harry Turtledove spans from 1862-1945 across 11 books and imagines an America where The South were successful in seceding from the Union.
From wikipedia:
“The point of divergence occurs on September 10, 1862, during the American Civil War. In actual history, a Confederatemessenger lost General Robert E. Lee's Special Order 191, which detailed Lee's plans for the Invasion of the North. The orders were soon found by Union soldiers, and using them, George McClellan was able to fight the Army of Northern Virginia to a draw at the Battle of Antietam, after which it returned to Virginia.
Before the Battle of Antietam, Federal troops accidentally recovered a copy of Special Order 191, which detailed Lee's plan for the invasion of Maryland. Using this intelligence, Federal forces under George B. McClellan moved north and forced the Battle of Antietam, ending the invasion.
In Turtledove's alternate history, Confederate troops recover Lee's orders before the papers fall into Union hands. The resulting Confederate advance catches McClellan and the Union Army by surprise. General Lee forces McClellan into a battle on the banks of the Susquehanna River in Pennsylvania and destroys the Army of the Potomac in the Battle of Camp Hill on October 1, 1862.”
I'd almost call it an Alternate History Game of Thrones. It's very much based on historical facts, but is obviously honed for fiction.
Anyway, that gives you an idea of the sort of things that I have been reading, and that influenced me to do a bit of a thought exercise and work backwards from what I believe UGWC to look like in 2019, and figure out my own point of divergence and explantion for it all. It's a lot less based on fact than it is a fun way to explain it to myself.
I by no means intend this to be anyone else's canon, though your welcome to it, it's just the lense I see our particular world through.
Since we started UGWC I never imagined it being a HUGE international company like WWE, it had weekly shows in one venue and would tour it's 'PPV's' across the US and occasionally abroad. It was also internet based and a streaming only site, which 9 years ago wasn't as prolific an idea as it is now. I've also always maintained that what happens in the ring is real, this is not like WWE, it's something different. I never reference real wrestlers or too much real world pop-culture in my posts (although a fair bit does obviously get in, but pretty much zero modern wrestling references). I have also been adamant we didn't do house shows, and that no-one was really a character, what we see on the boards is them all the time.
So, I hypothesize that the Universe UGWC is based in, is a very close relative to our own, a parallel universe as it were, where our timelines diverged a a distinct moment. That moment was the Death of Owen Hart on May 23rd 1999. At this point the WWE's Attitude Era was really getting off the ground. But at the same time the political climate for Pro-Wrestling and MMA was pretty dicey. They were only a few years removed from the steroid scandal that nearly brought them down, and they and other promotions around the world were providing edgier more adult content. Senator John McCain had been a big critic of UFC labelling it 'Human Cockfighting' and had drawn a lot of political attention which nearly brought it down.
Obviously in our timeline WWE and UFC weathered their storms, but in UGWC's timeline they didn't. For some reason (maybe the Hart family all got on the same page rather than bickering, or some other incident) Owen Hart's tragic death ignited a backlash against both Pro-Wrestling and MMA that by the early 2000's both had pretty much been driven out of business.
Out of those ashes rose a number of hybrid companies. All the glitz, entertainment and big characters and moves of wrestling, but with the shoot aspect of UFC. New fighting styles were developed that made actual wrestling moves become true offensive weapons. Across the world, fuelled by increasing access to the internet, local promotions sprang up, catering to the same markets that had lost an outlet when Pro-Wrestling and UFC died, but doing so out of the glare of the public eye. Small companies around the globe growing loyal local fan bases.
Over the next decade or so to present, many of these fledgling companies have grown but then dissipated and closed, many burning bright but for a very short amount of time, and there has never been one to emerge from the pack like WWE. The new landscape of Pro-Wrestling is similar to the territories, but it is not a geographical split, it is a genre split, with all the promotions being internet based, they are fighting for the same audience, and each different promotion has a slightly different way of displaying their product, precisely because there isn't a standard bearer like the WWE any more, there is no huge company that has managed to set expectations for most fans.
I also envisage that without Vince McMahon and the WWE (or similar monopoly) there is also a wrestlers union, and that more of the proceeds of the events are going into the pockets of the talent, rather than into production etc. They have the best healthcare available and also invested significantly in new treatments for injuries (which is why they can recover from some insane stuff). So this also explains how some people can still have characters that are rich from being successful in the sport while the sport itself seems smaller. They also have more power and protection in making their own career choices, hence why many can be seen in numerous different companies at once.
The biggest a company can grow to is around RoH at its peak size, or maybe a little bigger, nationally based with smaller foreign audiences, but even then it is hard for them to maintain that for long periods, as talent has more freedom to move from company to company, and also the ability to take time and rest up due to the decent healthcare. Which leads to more cross promotional events etc.
So does anyone else have any thoughts on the subject? Don't worry I don't expect everyone else to create their own alternate history (though all are welcome to do so, or even expand on my own), but what are your thoughts on the line between our fictitious world and the real world, where do you draw your boundary?
There are no right or wrong answers here, this is just a way for us all to get a little look inside the workings of our fellow writers minds.
2013, '18, '23 
2013 
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