Do you guys really VOTE on results?

[jackpuffer]

Members voting and so forth?

So you post the card and members vote on who they think should win?

Just curious.  Never heard of this before. 

[Lord Hastings]

For PPV events and title matches, members are invited to score all the posted roleplays, yes. The creative team determines results for non-PPVs. This is an optional component of participation in UGWC and some people choose not to do so or do so only when times allows, and that's fine. For WrestleStock, the creative team still determines the Cup Tournament because the sheer volume of content to be read and evaluated is too much to ask everyone to read and score in a timely fashion, though we hope everyone still takes the time to read all RPs.

[Jet Somers]

Jul 5, 2020 23:32:23 GMT -5 jackpuffer said:

Members voting and so forth?

So you post the card and members vote on who they think should win?

Just curious.  Never heard of this before. 

We post the card, and at the end of the rp week, the members who wish to participate rate the rps posted on a 10 point scale. The creative team tallies the results and that's how we determine ppv results and champions.

I wanted to clarify because it seemed like you thought folks just picked a winner from the posted card, and that's not how it works.

You should have a ballot in your private message that goes into more detail.

[jackpuffer]

Appreciate the well-worded response.

IMO voting on results is problematic. It delineates the competitive nature of the 'sport' in which we are actively engaging.

As a 20 year fed head I know how politics can intercept an individual's chances at ascension. Without the barrier of transparency, corruption is rewarded the opportunity to prevail.

A true, defined system of grading is my preferred modus operandi. But, that's just me. I like to know what I'm getting into. A popularity contest is NOT something I'm interested in. Left that behind when I turned 19.

[jackpuffer]

I have a ballot and I won't be using it. That's your job, as a fed head. Not trying to be offensive. That's just the way I feel.

[Lord Hastings]

Jul 5, 2020 23:57:29 GMT -5 jackpuffer said:

Appreciate the well-worded response.

IMO voting on results is problematic. It delineates the competitive nature of the 'sport' in which we are actively engaging.

As a 20 year fed head I know how politics can intercept an individual's chances at ascension. Without the barrier of transparency, corruption is rewarded the opportunity to prevail.

A true, defined system of grading is my preferred modus operandi. But, that's just me. I like to know what I'm getting into. A popularity contest is NOT something I'm interested in. Left that behind when I turned 19.

I appreciate your view, but I don't feel it is at all reflective of the environment here. We feel our system creates a fair environment that allows everyone the opportunity to succeed and stand behind our results, and believe that those opportunities have been reflected in results. We encourage members to give feedback to each other, including constructive criticism. Additionally, those of us on the creative team like to be allowed to play in the sandbox too, and our voting system allows that to occur fairly.

In the over ten years that UGWC has been open, I will freely admit that I have not agreed with every voted result. But when I read ballots, I am confident that the overhwleming majority of voters are doing so fairly.

Roleplays are the end result of hours of hard work and creative efforts on the part of the people that write them, and they deserve to be read, evaluated, and appreciated by as many people as possible. They should be reflected upon, not be forgotten, and they should matter. I believe our system maximizes the opportunity for this to occur.

And as it says in the ballot, it is entirely optional.

[jackpuffer]

I value your opinion but I 100% disagree.

It's your system and it's worked, so keep doing you. Just not my cup of tea.

Question - are the votes made public?

Are there certain criteria these people are supposed to grade by or do they simply email "Oh, yea, loved this rp!"

Again, I'm not trying to sound like a dick. It just doesn't make sense to me and, in a way, diminishes the accomplishments of those who succeed.

[Lord Hastings]

Scores are posted at the end of matches that have been voted on. Most PPV RPs also receive publicly posted feedback, which includes what readers liked and didn't like, what may have worked or not worked. Between both of these elements handlers get information about how there writing has been received and how they can improve if the result was not to their liking. I'm also always happy to discuss someone's work with them if they would like.

[jackpuffer]

By 'scores' are you talking the votes that were submitted? Or are you talking about the total number?

See, I think voters should be held accountable. Otherwise, you run the risk of mobs or groups voting for their friend. You can dismiss it but, trust me, it happens.

The publicly posted feedback...does that go into the score?

[Sebastian Everett-Bryce]

There is no flawless system for deciding results. If anyone says there is? It's a lie. Because whether you have a set grading system or a scenario by which members vote on contributions it's still an opinion. I've worked within both, and I've felt thoroughly screwed by both. And you know what? I can honestly say knowing one of two people telling me that my RP was worse than another is much harder to take than it being the concensus of my peers. What's more, that bias you're talking about? Every salty bitch in the fed would complain of bias everytime one of them won a match - because people don't like losing.

I appreciate that you've been a fedhead for a long time, but surely you can appreciate that there isn't just one way? And in that time, you have probably met some people who may or may not be confident enough to express their opinions about other people's writing. Exposing scores does little than create a scenario by which community voting occurs as, unless someone is super confident - as you clearly are for examlple - they would always vote middle of the road as not to be targeted by those stronger and sometimes less pleasant personalities.

It's the same reasons election votes are kept secret. If you know your vote is going to be seen by other people, that influences your vote.

I'm not a mod here - I'm merely an RPer. And while I'll never say the voting system is perfect, I'd also say there are fewer flaws than you seem to believe there is.

Honestly, the opinion of my peers means more to me than a lone fedhead that holds all the power and who can be just as influenced by politicall relationships and proverbial cock sucking as any other person. I mean no disrespect, of course - if it works for you and your fed? Then great.

Good luck.

[jackpuffer]

Jul 6, 2020 2:30:33 GMT -5 Sebastian Everett-Bryce said:

There is no flawless system for deciding results. If anyone says there is? It's a lie. Because whether you have a set grading system or a scenario by which members vote on contributions it's still an opinion. I've worked within both, and I've felt thoroughly screwed by both. And you know what? I can honestly say knowing one of two people telling me that my RP was worse than another is much harder to take than it being the concensus of my peers. What's more, that bias you're talking about? Every salty bitch in the fed would complain of bias everytime one of them won a match - because people don't like losing.

I appreciate that you've been a fedhead for a long time, but surely you can appreciate that there isn't just one way? And in that time, you have probably met some people who may or may not be confident enough to express their opinions about other people's writing. Exposing scores does little than create a scenario by which community voting occurs as, unless someone is super confident - as you clearly are for examlple - they would always vote middle of the road as not to be targeted by those stronger and sometimes less pleasant personalities.

It's the same reasons election votes are kept secret. If you know your vote is going to be seen by other people, that influences your vote.

I'm not a mod here - I'm merely an RPer. And while I'll never say the voting system is perfect, I'd also say there are fewer flaws than you seem to believe there is.

Honestly, the opinion of my peers means more to me than a lone fedhead that holds all the power and who can be just as influenced by politicall relationships and proverbial cock sucking as any other person. I mean no disrespect, of course - if it works for you and your fed? Then great.

Good luck.

This has never been about there being ONE way...it's been about THIS way.

I'm a fan of transparency.  If I'm going to rent a place to stay I want to read the rules...I want to know what I'm getting into.  I would like to know what I need to do in an effort to succeed within the environment.

That can never and WILL never happen with a voting system.  It just won't.  Peers can sit there and grade your stuff and make you feel this way or that way all you want....but when the peers leave, guess what...another peer jumps in and they set a new set of parameters that they deem necessary for success.  That's a fact.  This shit is subjective.

You cannot argue that previous paragraph.  I mean, you can try but...ya know, whatever.  It's the truth.  Now, removing that previous inarguable graph-of-para aside, we'll get into the portion of this flawed logic that IS arguable...cliques, groups, favoritism.

So let's say this doesn't happen.  Even though it does.  Human nature.  If UGWC has NEVER had a group or a clique of writers backing each other up no matter what, then they are the ONLY fed in the HISOTRY of fedding that has experienced such an anomaly.  Assuming they have experienced said anomaly..then that would still leave the aforementioned inarguable, above paragraph...which, means...

This system is flawed.  In my eyes.

Again, this is just my opinion.  But I feel as though, with this system, you are not awarding the best rpers with their prize.  You're pretty much bowing your head to the crowd, putting over the most popular.

It's also an easy way out if someone yells at you over a loss.

"Oh, yea, that was a tough one but, ya know, the voting."

I seriously think this system takes accountability out of the equation and promotes...nepotism?  Is that the word I wanna go with?  Yea, I'll go with that.  It's getting late.

[jackpuffer]

Oh and, FTR...just remove me from my match.

Not mad or anything. I just can't compete in a system I don't agree with.

Take Puffer out or have him get pinned. Raped. I don't care. I just don't want any part of this system.

No offense.

["Burned in Blood" Konrad Raab]

I'm sorry to say this and I hate to be a bit brutal to people, but you are coming across as a dick here. You could've PMed the staff your concerns instead of causing such a massive fuss.

I have never voted and never will, but what I abslotely love the most about this place and more feds should do it is you get feedback without asking for it. How many feds do you know give you feedback without asking for it? It's because of the feedback I get that's made me improve my RP's to another level.

I don't give a damn about winning or losing or how people vote for my matches, apart from this year's Massive Melee how gutted I was not to win because that was the best RP I done here, but I know I have been judged fairly with my stuff.

A lot of people like me here and if it was bias, I'd win everytime, but I rarely win at all.

Still I don't care about wins and losses, that isn't important for me. I care a lot more about getting feedback for my work so I know what to fix, what improvements I made, what people like and dislike and I learn from it to improve what I need to fix with next time. If I don't understand something in feedback people give me, I ask to clarify what they meant either on the boards or by PM.

Sorry to be harsh, but like I'd defend another fed I have Konrad on, I certainly will defend for UGWC as well. Take the judging as it is.

[Sebastian Everett-Bryce]

Jul 6, 2020 2:56:54 GMT -5 jackpuffer said:

This has never been about there being ONE way...it's been about THIS way.

I'm a fan of transparency.  If I'm going to rent a place to stay I want to read the rules...I want to know what I'm getting into.  I would like to know what I need to do in an effort to succeed within the environment.

That can never and WILL never happen with a voting system.  It just won't.  Peers can sit there and grade your stuff and make you feel this way or that way all you want....but when the peers leave, guess what...another peer jumps in and they set a new set of parameters that they deem necessary for success.  That's a fact.  This shit is subjective.

You cannot argue that previous paragraph.  I mean, you can try but...ya know, whatever.  It's the truth.  Now, removing that previous inarguable graph-of-para aside, we'll get into the portion of this flawed logic that IS arguable...cliques, groups, favoritism.

So let's say this doesn't happen.  Even though it does.  Human nature.  If UGWC has NEVER had a group or a clique of writers backing each other up no matter what, then they are the ONLY fed in the HISOTRY of fedding that has experienced such an anomaly.  Assuming they have experienced said anomaly..then that would still leave the aforementioned inarguable, above paragraph...which, means...

This system is flawed.  In my eyes.

Again, this is just my opinion.  But I feel as though, with this system, you are not awarding the best rpers with their prize.  You're pretty much bowing your head to the crowd, putting over the most popular.

It's also an easy way out if someone yells at you over a loss.

"Oh, yea, that was a tough one but, ya know, the voting."

I seriously think this system takes accountability out of the equation and promotes...nepotism?  Is that the word I wanna go with?  Yea, I'll go with that.  It's getting late.

For someone who is a fan of transparency and wanting to know what the rules are, you had a tough time spotting in the announcement where it explained how matches are graded here before you signed up. Just saying.

I'll be honest, I've been a part of more feds that have had a tyrannical owner who decided it was his way or no way. Facts. There is nothing to stop someone slipping into an owner's DM's and telling them how amazing they are? Because you're talking about ONE persons opinion Vs the many. If a fedhead doesn't like you when they decide the results, you're going to perform poorly. Because, you know, human nature - right?

And let's add in you comment about cliques - of course that could be an issue. But you're saying owners and fedheads can't be part of a clique? They can. I've seen it. Also, if an owner doesn't like a particular style or character, that character is fucked. Here, if a character gets a cult following they'll do well. Because it's about the readers, not one person.

And of course you're going to think your system works best when you pick the winner - who the fuck is going to come and tell you you're wrong? Because as soon as someone shows any kind of disagreement towards your way of thinking, they risk you suddenly deciding that their RP's don't work anymore. Guess what? I've seen that too - you're not the only one to have been around the block here. No-one tells a dictator that they're doing a shitty job, because that's how people end up not being people anymore.

But here's the beauty of our system - someone could tell Steve, Rob, Chad, Adam AND Brandon that they haven't got a fucking clue what they're doing, and they can still be successful. In fact, people have - I've had my share of disagreements with things that have happened here in the last five years since I joined and guess what? I've still been successful.

But let's just say that you're the only fed owner in history that doesn't have an ego, I'm not sure you are given your posts so far but that's fine, we all have that a touch, but say for argument's sake you're the only one in history who doesn't, and doesn't hold grudges, and doesn't dislike people OOC. It still remains that every writer has to cater to what you like specifically in order for it to be a success. Because, as you quite clearly put it, this shit is subjective. And what makes your opinion mean more than everyone else that writes here in the fed?

Sorry it didn't work out for you guy - I hold no hard feelings toward you, but if the fed isn't for you then it may be for the best.

Maybe  read those rules before you sign up in the future? Would probably save you a whole lot of time and effort for nothing.

[Adelaide Ainsworth]

I would suggest that it's time to kill this thread.
This a Catholics vs Protestants argument right now.