Post by Sheena Ramone on Sept 2, 2010 5:05:37 GMT -5
I just heard about President Obama calling a direct end to the War in Iraq (I don't watch much news if this is fairly old). Want to know everyone's oppinion on this issue as an american withdrawl technically means that most of NATO will follow suit as they have no other reason to stay bar helping out the US armed forces.
Personally I think its about time; this war should have ended after they killed Sadam.
Post 137 was a 'space' feedz in my post as a competitive nature to BoolZ
Post by 'The Cyclone' JK on Sept 3, 2010 10:45:13 GMT -5
that'll go on for a little while longer...until they realise that Osama bin Laden isn't there; and that the longer we stay, the stronger the Taliban gets.
I have been against the Iraq war for a while now, and think that the end was way overdue.
Post by T-Robosaurus Rex on Sept 3, 2010 22:15:54 GMT -5
Seem's like a strange topic for an E-Fed message board, especially given how little any of us probably know about the actual what's and why's of the whole thing. It's easy to say your for or against a war when you're never going to have to make that decision. And in some ways it's quite worrying how simplistically some people seem to view the situation.
My view is thus. I was never for the war int he first place, but now that we've (Mainly The USA and The UK) gone in and destablised an entire region I personally think we should clean the mess up.
The idea that once Saddam was captured we should of pulled out is insane, we would have left a vacuum of power arise in which another dictator would have most likely grasped power. To have left at that point would have been criminally short sighted.
We made a big mess, and it's our job to clean it up.
As for Afghanistan, that's a whole different kettle of fish. To actually sort that region out an entire infrastructure change needs to occur, it's a pretty poor country, and before the war it's main source of income was from cultivating Poppy Seeds for various opiate drugs. Unless that is sorted out Afghanistan will always be a problem spot, and terrorism will always find a home their.
What I hope has been learnt from this is that the likes of the USA and the UK shouldn't go around trying to impose Democracy on all and sundry.
I say this all with the greatest respect to Bryan, who quite obviously will have a very different perspective than I, and I can't pretend I'd know where I'd stand in his position.
Hanson: "May Roberts' soul go to a better place, free of chunky Asians, who do flips."
Seem's like a strange topic for an E-Fed message board, especially given how little any of us probably know about the actual what's and why's of the whole thing. It's easy to say your for or against a war when you're never going to have to make that decision. And in some ways it's quite worrying how simplistically some people seem to view the situation.
My view is thus. I was never for the war int he first place, but now that we've (Mainly The USA and The UK) gone in and destablised an entire region I personally think we should clean the mess up.
The idea that once Saddam was captured we should of pulled out is insane, we would have left a vacuum of power arise in which another dictator would have most likely grasped power. To have left at that point would have been criminally short sighted.
We made a big mess, and it's our job to clean it up.
As for Afghanistan, that's a whole different kettle of fish. To actually sort that region out an entire infrastructure change needs to occur, it's a pretty poor country, and before the war it's main source of income was from cultivating Poppy Seeds for various opiate drugs. Unless that is sorted out Afghanistan will always be a problem spot, and terrorism will always find a home their.
What I hope has been learnt from this is that the likes of the USA and the UK shouldn't go around trying to impose Democracy on all and sundry.
I say this all with the greatest respect to Bryan, who quite obviously will have a very different perspective than I, and I can't pretend I'd know where I'd stand in his position.
I agree to a sense; however; if we satyed in there for, say, a few more years, then it could possibly lead to some resentment, and we'd get something of what happened with Vietnam (The leader of the group who wants them out gains more support), which could lead to the rise of a dictator anyway.
Also, to put in some perspective of how I (and very likely how my brother) have felt seeing as dad is over in Iraq (He's coming home, though...thank god).
As with Travis, I say all this with the upmost respect to you Bryan; and yeah, you might have a completely different view to me.
just my 2 cents though =P
Post 137 was a 'space' feedz in my post as a competitive nature to BoolZ
I agree to a sense; however; if we satyed in there for, say, a few more years, then it could possibly lead to some resentment, and we'd get something of what happened with Vietnam (The leader of the group who wants them out gains more support), which could lead to the rise of a dictator anyway.
You speak as if there isn't resentment already. If there are people from the invading countries who think the war is stupid, how do you think the people who's homes have been turned into rubble feel? As but one example, since all the would-be international aid workers arrived in Kabul, homelessness has actually significantly increased. The aid workers create a huge rental demand, so prices go up and the local people can't compete in the market, winding up with nowhere to live.
Also, to put in some perspective of how I (and very likely how my brother) have felt seeing as dad is over in Iraq (He's coming home, though...thank god).
I understand that, most definitely, and I wouldn't attack your desire to see your dad. My problem is people who think on a more general level, where they want troops withdrawn just because they are US/UK/Aus/whatever citizens and so rightfully deserve to be protected, meanwhile leaving those in the affected countries even more fucked over than they already are. It shouldn't matter what country they are from, they deserve to be protected as well and we have a responsibility to do that since we've put them in this position.
Obviously my feelings about this whole situation are quite negative. Travis is right, I think, in saying it’s a delicate issue. I won’t say anymore than I already have, in fear of coming off as an asshole to other posters. I apologise if I’ve stepped on anyone’s toes, as it wasn’t my intention.
Post by 'The Cyclone' JK on Sept 4, 2010 8:14:15 GMT -5
Logically I agree with both P and T-Rob, hence why I am happy that they will keep a few comanders as aid to their military, and that humanitarian aid continues, and possibly will increase now that it's not a warzone. However, like my bro said (and I know some have already acknowledged this as a genuine reason) I have a very warped view due to family being over there, so I may come off sounding like someone who just hates the idea of us being there due to the nationality (I may, and might accidentally continue to word things incorrectly).
and from what I gathered, I think he was talking about the current resentment over growing the level it is at now. Using 'nam as an example (seeing as Tim used it), there was resentment of SEATO forces by the South Vietnamese the moment they touched down for the thought that they were technically invading, and destroying their country. Resentment grew more after the attrocities the allies comitted, such as killing a village suspected of hiding the Vietcong, and use of certain weapons which had severe health consequences.
As with P, I don't mean to come off as an ignorant jackass or anything.
Post by Jet Somers on Sept 7, 2010 21:53:37 GMT -5
I've debated this topic countless times, and it's exhausting really. All in all, trying to nutshell it, here are my views:
1. We had no business trying to impose our idea of government in another nation. 2. Wild goose chasing is a bullshit reason for a decade of war. 3. Once we got in the mess, however, pulling out immediately would have been disastrous, and yes, we have to clean up what we fucked up. 4. I wish we had better planners up top who can take more than seven years to re-establish stasis. Seriously, I can watch a subdevelopment go up in two weeks. Why is the middle east still rubble if we have been there so long trying to clean up our mess? 5. The gradual pull out we were promised has been a little too gradual. 6. The middle east has been a war torn region since the dawn of civilization. No offense to Middle Easterners, but from an American standpoint, let's let them fight it out if they want, and lets take care of our problems at home first. I spent the weekend in Atlanta at Dragon*Con, and as I drove away from the hotel I must have seen over a hundred people sleeping on the sidewalk. And we've spent how many billions mired in the middle east? 7. Last but not least, and probably most important of all, I hate the war, but NOT THE TROOPS. Soldiers have the utmost respect from me.
World (4) CH (1) Chaos (2) CoOp (7) GIW Hardcore Champion PPW Paramount Champion Battleground 2011 Outlast 2014 IYH House Finalist 2015 MVP 2011 Best Collaboration 2012-13