Post by Eden Morgan on Mar 5, 2014 14:45:45 GMT -5
Lannisters ftw!
Yes, I'm a Lannister fan. Jaime, Tyrion, Tywin, Cersei... they're all pretty damned awesome, with the exception of Joffrey who should have been drowned at birth. So yeah, I'm excited to see them and their evolving stories.
Dany, because hell yes! She seriously has some of the best lines in the trailers that have been released, though I'm thinking like B, she's headed for a fall, I'm just hoping we see her rise again before the season ends.
I don't really care about Theon Greyjoy or any of that storyline, though I have to admit I'm curious about the Greyjoys outside of him. His sister, for instance. I'd love to see those mofos in battle. But him? Meh, kill him.
Also not particularly caring about Stannis, Arya, or Sandor. Sorry Wayne. They bore me and the kid who plays Arya is pretty painful to watch. She comes onscreen and I kinda just wanna yell "stfu already!" but then I'm also not a Stark fan.
The royal wedding? Yes!! More story regarding Jaime and Brienne? Yes!! More Tywin badassery? Yes!!
Last Edit: Mar 5, 2014 14:46:53 GMT -5 by Eden Morgan
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Post by Eden Morgan on Apr 7, 2014 15:18:04 GMT -5
Alright so I'm still in Fuck WWE mode and likely will be for a good long while. But Game of Thrones last night?! Badassery! I actually enjoyed The Hound and Arya last night, which is pretty insane considering I can't stand the kid who plays Arya. Jaime... still a favorite. Sansa... annoying and whiny as ever. I enjoyed the introduction of Oberyn Martell and I'm pretty interested to see where it goes. Basically, I enjoyed every bit of the premiere last night... other than Sansa's scenes, but I guess those were needed for like drink refills or something. It just seemed too short, I swear it was ending and I was sitting there like... what?! That's it?! Argh!
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Post by T-Robosaurus Rex on Apr 16, 2014 8:24:35 GMT -5
So this weeks GoT.
Killing off their main heel, whilst I was expecting it as the episode dragged on, is a pretty bold move. I know you book readers know where it goes from here but I'm gonna miss having Joffrey to hate...
Wait, oh yeah we still have Ramsey.
Oh and for the sake of guessing, Cersei did the poisonin', most to gain from it by far.
Hanson: "May Roberts' soul go to a better place, free of chunky Asians, who do flips."
Post by Red Bull Icon on Apr 16, 2014 10:24:07 GMT -5
Curious, what does Cersei gain? Does she stay queen and if so wouldn't that make Loras the new king so Cersei wouldn't actually keep any power, not that she had any or Loras would with that old lady and Tywin around.
They mentioned the iron bank. Maybe that was their way of sending a past due notice? I'd say the foreigner, but I suspect he'd rather stab Joffrey. Sansa maybe? She's hated him, he really twisted the knife with his midget play, and she handled the cup.
As for the new big bad. Isn't there still an army of ice zombies marching behind the army of wildlings that are on the other side of the world from the army of slaves led by dragons? And where's Littlefinger? Ramsey just seems to minor both in importance and vision. The big bad replacing Joffrey needs to be regal. Hell I'd imagine Tywin has a claim to authority until a rightful successor to the throne is found, it could be him.
Post by Jet Somers on Apr 16, 2014 12:06:08 GMT -5
I think Olenna did it. Something involving the necklace that Sansa was given, which I'm sure she removed when she 'fixed her hair.'
There was a lot of talk about Olenna paying for the food, and lots about the Tyrells and food...Hell, even Tywin said perhaps they should have baked golden roses into the pies... and it was after the pie that Joffrey kicked it.
By order of succession, Joffrey's little brother (tommen? rommen?) is now king. I'm actually a little sad... not because I didn't want to see Joffrey dead, but because we've lost the guy we love to hate, the main bad guy, and the whole landscape is going to change now.
My favorite part of the whole episode was when Oberyn actually snarked Tywin into a corner and shut him up. Who does that???
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Post by T-Robosaurus Rex on Apr 16, 2014 13:59:02 GMT -5
Reasons I think it's Cersei, I typed this up once and then the board fucked up. Grrr, the one time I don't choose to write in OpenOffice or Notepad.
Anyway.
Cersei as a woman is clearly pretty fucked up. She was in a loveless marriage for many years and that twisted her into an inbreeding succubus, as is known to happen. Whilst she hated her marriage to Robert, she didn't hate being married to him, because he paid as much attention to ruling as he did to his wife. Not only did this give her free reign to sleep with her brother and create at least one demon spawn, it gave her to one thing she loves and covets above everything, power.
That is what Cersei, and a lot of the GoT characters want and live for. If you are the most powerful pwerson in Westeros you hold the keys to History.
Cersei sent two Hands of the King to their graves when they discovered where Joffrey actually comes from to retain power, knowing that killing the second would only ensure that the North also got involved in a war no-one wanted, just to keep her grip on power.
And then along comes Margaery Tyrell , and she has a seemingly different approach to power. Just like Cersei she is obsessed with being Queen, hence marrying Joffrey, but she has so far used her position to, spit, help others. We've seen that Cersei does not like her sons future wife, and the realms future queen, on a personal and political level. But that's not whats he ahtes most.
It's that Marj' is gonna take all her power. She has watched how easily the young, supple and tight Marj' can twist Joffrey round her thumb, and whilst she's always been into the incest even Cersei ain't going down that path to gain influence over her son.
If the marriage goes ahead Cersei stands to lose everything she has come to love, her father is making most of the decisions anyway, but if she is not queen her power, and influence are drastically less.
So the obvious question is why not just kill Marj'? Why Kill joffrey?
Apart from the fact it's not just Ms. Tyrell Cersei has a problem with and any woman would potentially represent the same thing, there is another issue at play.
Cersei for all her major flaws is not blind, ignorant nor stupid. She sees exactly what Joffrey is becoming. Hell, I think one of the reasons she hooked up with Jamie was the fact she was a bit of a Targaryen nut growing up, and if she learnt about inbreeding she certainly knows all about 'The Mad King', hell her brother slayed him. She recognises madness, and she sees it in her son, there have been a few occasions where thats been displayed, I think in a conversation with Tyrion the last series they touched on what he is becoming and the fact she is losing control of him.
And that's exactly what’s happening, even without a wife Joffrey has shown disrespect to his mother on a few occasions, and she knows it will only get worse as his sick mind develops and indulges itself more.
So what does she gain from Joffrey living?
Not only that, when Tyrion and Jamie sat in this episode and tried to drink together, Tyrion remarks or toasts something along the lines of 'The Lannister Children, look at us now, the cripple, the imp and the Mother of Madness.'
Remember this is a world where your legacy is oen of the most important things you have, and that is alrgely passed down through tale and song. Tyrion, no matter how many noble deeds he tries to commit, will forever be the devious imp, he has accepted that. Jamie had accepted he'd always be known as the Kinglsayer, and now is trying to come to terms with being the Cripple.
But Cersei, does anyone think she imagined that her legacy would be as 'The Mother of Madness' after all she has been through, all she has sacrificed, all she has endured to be immortalised by the second coming of the Mad King? Does anyone really think she'd stand by and let that happen?
I really don't think she would.
The question of who becomes King? I think it would be Joffrey's younger, meeker brother who Cersei has been shown in more tender scenes, like trying to poison (hmmm) him when she thought Stanis was at the gate the save him a brutal death. He's a lot younger, she can control him for longer and retain power, he hopefully wouldn't have to marry for the purposes of a war alliance and she may have more say in who he does marry (A Sansa type she thinks she could bully).
She probably looks at Olenna Tyrell and thinks 'That's what I want' a meek son who I can control and continue well into long life dictated and dominating.'
I just don't see anyone else gaining as much as she does, and potentially she can use this to wriggle out of marrying the “pillow biter”.
What do the Tyrell's gain? It clearly wasn't Tyrion. Sansa hasn't grown a pair, nor has the contacts to pull it off. Jamie does have form but the motives don't stack up as much.
The closest is Stanis, remember last series the Red Priestess took two leeches and sacrificed them as two kings? We've seen her magic work before, whilst there was no witchcraft involved in Rob Starks death, who knows.
But my initial reaction is Cersei, obviously this is GoT so I'm probably wrong.
And as for Ramsey, I wans't suggesting he be the big bad, but he can certainly be hated somewhat. His acts on theon, despite his own despicable nature, were on Joffrey levels of twisted and fucked up. The likes of Tywin and Littlefinger have shown some redeeming sides to them, softer moments that’s how humanity even at it's lowest ebb. Ramsey's only excuse, so far, is that he's a bastard. Not sure I buy that being enough to enjoy chopping dicks off. He truly seems to take pleasure in violence, whilst most of the other 'heels' do it out of their own twisted views of necessity. Which si why I would 'hate' him more than the others.
Hanson: "May Roberts' soul go to a better place, free of chunky Asians, who do flips."
Post by Jet Somers on Apr 16, 2014 22:43:34 GMT -5
Interesting observations.
I feel like we haven't learned all there is to learn about the Tyrells yet. We don't know their reasons and motivations for what they do.
One thing I feel is significant: we didn't even see the Tyrells get involved in the drama until Joffrey became king. Then suddenly, Marj is willing to take her brother to bed in order to help Renly produce an heir. She was strongly behind doing whatever it took to help Renly (who was the obvious choice to win before Red vagina-smoked him). Then suddenly she's all, I'LL MARRY JOFFREY!!! Yeah, there's something about the Tyrells needing to take down Joffrey/The Lannisters.
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I feel like we haven't learned all there is to learn about the Tyrells yet. We don't know their reasons and motivations for what they do.
One thing I feel is significant: we didn't even see the Tyrells get involved in the drama until Joffrey became king. Then suddenly, Marj is willing to take her brother to bed in order to help Renly produce an heir. She was strongly behind doing whatever it took to help Renly (who was the obvious choice to win before Red vagina-smoked him). Then suddenly she's all, I'LL MARRY JOFFREY!!! Yeah, there's something about the Tyrells needing to take down Joffrey/The Lannisters.
In fairness though, no-one was really involved in the 'drama' outside the Starks and Lannisters until Robert died and Joffrey became king. Whilst Robert wasn't the most attentive king, there was peace, when he died and rumours of Joffrey's status came about opportunity arose.
Marj' said it herself she didn't want to be 'a' queen she wanted to be 'The' Queen, her motivations have been made very clear. As you said Renley was the strong favourite numbers wise before his death, she wasn't married to him for love given she knew about her brother and him, she was married to him as it was the best shot at becoming Queen, When he died, and Littlefinger came to her with the chance to become 'The' Queen through marrying Joffrey of course she jumped at the chance, and the Tyrell's and their money aligned with the Lannisters all of a sudden become the favourites in war, and they gain a place in Kings Landing and power.
As for their reasons and motivations, I'd place a guess they're the same as most of the high-born families we've seen, to gain as much power as possible.
I just don't see a plus for the Tyrell's in Joffrey's death, everyone wants power and by killing him before producing an heir that they might have had some influence over does them no good whatsoever.
But who knows, this is why the show is so good there are so many suspects for every mystery and you know whatever the reveal our minds will most likely be blown.
The favourite theory I've heard regards John Snow, don't know if I've expressed it here yet, but I may do when I get a little time in the coming days it turns so much on it's head.
Hanson: "May Roberts' soul go to a better place, free of chunky Asians, who do flips."
Post by T-Robosaurus Rex on Apr 30, 2014 10:02:52 GMT -5
OK, so I was wrong, very wrong.
But the actual reasoning is one of the worst thought out plot lines they've done in the show. Makes very little sense.
And are we all loving Jaime now that he's been turned into the guy who rapes his sister next to the corpse of their son whilst she grieves? Admittedly in the books it's much more two way apparently, but the way they filmed it for TV it was all Jaime, and now he can't be redeemed to me, that was a very strange choice, no coming back from that despite how cool and friendly they try and make him. They could have handled that scene a LOT better.
Hanson: "May Roberts' soul go to a better place, free of chunky Asians, who do flips."